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The Old Young Avengers

March 24, 2010 | 9:17 AM | By Tom_Brevoort | In General

Taking a quick break from Reader Questions to share this hopefully-interesting artifact with you.

Back around 2005, we made a bit of a splash with a series titled YOUNG AVENGERS. Before the series launched, fearful fans decried it, expecting it to be terrible. But the proof was in teh pudding, and fandom as a whole quickly came around to embracing Allan Heinberg and Jim Cheung's new young characters.

But this was not the first time that a YOUNG AVENGERS series had been pitched.

Over to the left you'll find a document that's been sitting in my files for decades, since the time I first inherited the editorship of NEW WARRIORS back around 1993. It's a pitch submitted by Jim Valentino and Rob Liefeld for a series to be called YOUNG AVENGERS. At the time this was written in 1989, while both of them had dabbled in doing Marvel work, neither creator had really had a break-out hit. Sharing a studio at the time, they hoped that YOUNG AVENGERS might be it, with Jim writing and Rob illustrating a series they would co-plot.

As it turned out, work was already underway on the book that eventually was entitled NEW WARRIORS, which prevented this incarnation of YOUNG AVENGERS from moving ahead. It's actually pretty extraordinary to see how close the line-up for what Jim and Rob proposed was to the eventual NEW WARRIORS team. Mark Gruenwald's internal memo to proposing editor Craig Anderson letting him know about this is also reproduced on the left.

Many of the ideas, characters and concepts that Jim and Rob conceived for this pitch eventually wound up in the assorted projects they later worked on--NEW MUTANTS, GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY, X-FORCE and even a couple of Imgae titles. So the conceptual work they had done here didn't exactly go to waste, even if this turned out to be the wrong pitch at the wrong time for reasons unbeknownst to them.

But it does show what a series pitch for a new Marvel title more-or-less looked like at around the time I started.

Special thanks to Rob Liefeld for allowing me to share this document with you.

(I also still have Warren Ellis's pitch to take over NEW WARRIORS circa 1993--I'll have to check with him and see if he';d have any objections to sharing that document with the world as well.)

More later.

Tom B

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Hmm... I wonder if this had anything to do with the creation of the Actual Young Avengers, or the New Warriors.

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jc1569 - April 3, 2010 | 12:05 AM

"It's actually pretty extraordinary to see how close the line-up for what Jim and Rob proposed was to the eventual NEW WARRIORS team. Mark Gruenwald's internal memo to proposing editor Craig Anderson letting him know about this is also reproduced on the left."

There seems to be a pretty clear subtext to that letter; Mark/Tom telling Craig he's "doubtlessly aware" that they're already working on this concept (in conjunction with the fact that the initial line-up is identical, which is too much of a coincidence) seems like a not-so subtle way of saying "Not cool. You shouldn't be telling freelancers about our plans and encouraging them to submit competing proposals."

Also, Warren Ellis pitched to take over NW in 1993? Fabian didn't leave till late '94, right? Isn't it considered bad form to pitch for a book another freelancer is still working on?

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CylverSaber - April 4, 2010 | 10:05 AM

Definitely interesting! I'm a big New Warriors fans and getting to see early stuff like this is great. Thank you!

I assume this was being developed by Jim and Rob at the same time that Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz were developing the New Warriors for their debut in THE MIGHTY THOR? So this would be even before Fabian Nicieza or Mark Bagley got involved? It's amazing that they picked the exact same core cast of characters, minus Rick Jones (and obviously new characters).Weird.

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MyWords - April 10, 2010 | 5:05 PM

Great stuff! Is there any chance you could publish Valentino's proposal for his run on Guardians of the Galaxy?

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WilliamCo - April 11, 2010 | 1:05 AM

A weird postscript to all this: Valentino and Liefeld did eventually briefly collaborate on an Avengers project - the 1996 Heroes Reborn Avengers title, which of course didn't resemble this proposal at all and ended in mutual recriminations between the two creators.

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hueysheridan - April 12, 2010 | 12:05 PM

Sorry, JC but sometimes a ceegar is just a ceegar.

Rob and I had no clue about the New Warriors when I wrote this.
The fact of the matter is, as Tom points out, we were both looking for a break-out book, we wanted to collaborate on something and this was one of five or six pitches I had for Tom and Mark (including the Guardians of the Galaxy).

Sometimes there is no conspiracy, merely coincidence.
This was one of those times.

Thanks to Tom for posting this--I haven't seen it since it left my hands (it was typed on an old Royal typewriter!).

Interesting to see a blast from the past.

jim

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JimValentino - April 12, 2010 | 3:05 PM

With Tom's kind permission, I'll respond.

Sorry, Cylver, but there was no conspiracy here. Rob and I had no clue about the New Warriors (as I recall the introductory Thor story was just being penciled at the time). We did exactly what I assume DeFalco did and just cobbled together every teen-age hero at Marvel at the time that WASN'T in the X-Men or New Mutants.

The coincidence was shocking to ALL sides.
I do not believe that there was any subtext to Mark's note to Craig, either. Sorry to blow holes in your theories, but there it is. These things happen more often than you can imagine as Tom B will no doubt attest.

And, yes, MyWords, you're correct--as noted above. This preceded Fabian and mark's involvement with the characters.

jc, I doubt it had any bearing on the creation of the later book (which was excellent)--as Tom notes, it had been lost in a drawer for over two decades!

Thank you for resurrecting it, Tom. Very strange to see it after all these years.

best,

jim

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JimValentino - April 12, 2010 | 10:05 PM

Are these documents still available to view? I don't see them anywhere...?

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kenten - June 21, 2010 | 2:05 PM